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Interview with Pascal Lamy, European Commissioner for Trade, Le Figaro newspaper (France), September 2003

Ten days away from the opening of the ministerial conference in Cancún, the European negotiator responds to critics.

Pascal Lamy: "the WTO is the UN of trade, but without a Security Council"

Le Figaro.- Since Doha, the political context has changed considerably. Are you not scared that the war in Iraq will have an influence on the Cancún negotiations?

Pascal Lamy.- In themselves, the consequences of the war on Iraq won't have an influence on the negotiations. What is more worrying is the current economic situation. Good news has been scarce in the past eighteen months. That is why success at Cancún would represent a success for the world economy.

The WTO does not seem to be able to influence public opinion, and demonstrations rejecting it are getting larger and larger…

You are talking there about a rather franco-french opinion. The countries, and particularly the developing countries, that are members do not regret joining and others want to join. It is true that in some sectors of opinion, and particularly in France, there is heavy criticism. The WTO is the symbol of a globalisation which generates fear and anxiety, and I understand this to some degree. Nevertheless, when I watch the evolution of the antiglobalist or alterglobalist militants, I am pleased to see a change of tone. Before Seattle, the goal was to sink the WTO. Today, it is solely to change the object of negotiations. From this point of view, there is progress. We have moved from attempts to negate the WTO towards a constructive attitude and the assumption of responsibility. Why is the WTO necessary? Because, I am one of those people who believe that the capitalist, market-economy system has advantages and disadvantages. To fight the disadvantages, we need to bring in politics and develop stronger international organisations.

It is true that within this confusing plethora of specialised international institutions, the WTO is more visible than, for example, the World Health Organisation or the FAO. We need common rules, discipline, and international-level mechanisms to enforce their respect. This is true of social affairs, agriculture and the environment. You should not blame the WTO for the failures of other organisations. The landmark feature of European politics is to have pushed for a stronger WTO and to have made the Americans accept a mechanism for settling differences in 1995, which, given the United States´ fondness for unilateralism, represents a real success. The WTO is the UN of trade, but without a Security Council: all its members have equal rights.

The organisation is criticised because it is not satisfied with regulating trade but actually moulds a political world…

I do not subscribe to that criticism. I will say again that we need strong international organisations, and, alongside the WTO, a strong world environment organisation or labour or health organisation. What's more, I will not let it be said that the WTO is undemocratic. It is better than the IMF, where the richer you are, the more powerful you are. The principle of the WTO is one state, one vote. Two thirds of the WTO´s members are developing countries now, and three quarters of them are represented in Geneva. Sometimes, we give subsidies to these countries for judicial purposes, if there is a trial. If the WTO was more a problem than a solution, all these countries would not be so attached to the WTO.

But do they really have the choice?

Of course! We didn´t force them to come. They want to be part of the WTO, because they are aware that they can defend themselves a lot easier within the framework of the WTO than in bilateral negotiations. Moreover, these countries are grouping together more and more, like in Mercosur, the Andean Community, or certain African or Asian countries. From this point of view, Europe was a forerunner.

But don't the regional developments that you describe threaten to lead to a breakdown of multilateralism?

That question is a purely academic one. The policy of the European Union is simple. The number one priority is multilateralism for political, economic and ideological reasons. Then we add to these agreements with supplementary agreements, which we have done for example with our neighbours in the Mediterranean, or South American countries. In a practical sense, there is no contradiction between regional bilateralism and multilateralism. The political question is not that of knowing whether or not multilateral institutions are needed. And we, as Europeans, are against the law of the jungle. To avoid economic relations turning into power relations we need rules, negotiations and compromise. Even if for the moment this isn't perfect.

What´s more, relations between the WTO and the ILO are still in checkmate…

Absolutely, and it's a shame. Especially because at Doha, the European Union went out of its way for that dossier and ran into a brick wall constructed by the United States and the developing countries. The former for reasons of liberal ideology, the latter because they see it as a roundabout way of imposing protectionist norms upon them. On the social question in particular, we others, the Europeans, might scare people but we are holding course.

What do you imagine to be the outcome of China's entry into the WTO?

China has been a member for two years. It is too early to tell. Let's say that the Chinese behave to protect Chinese interests. This can sometimes change the nature of diplomatic relationships. They believe, and rightly so, that they have paid a high price for membership. China has one foot in the North and one foot in the South, and it's the second foot we are seeing more of at the moment.

Europe is already divided, particularly with regard to agricultural policy. Might not enlargement stir up even more divisions?

Europe's cohesion has not been diminished. Nor have we ever posed the question of European unity less. Of course, from time to time we have to compromise, but, as always, you have to exchange concessions here and there to gain more influence. With regard to the agriculture question, it's true that the French and the English see things differently. But Council decisions are made by the qualified majority, as the French know. Italy obviously cares about its olive oil, as France does its grain, but at the end of the day, the European Union Council and the European Parliament decide. That´s what Europe is all about.

How do you react to criticisms from your socialist allies, who reproach you for drifting towards neo-liberalism?

From some of my socialist allies… I ask myself the same questions about controlling globalisation, but the Union's policies correspond with my own beliefs. What's more, in my current position, I am not at the service of either the Socialist party or France, but of the general interest of the European Union. The fact that a social democrat is targeted by the far left and the right is not historically surprising.

Wouldn't developing countries suffer the most from failure?

Obviously. Of the twenty subjects on the agenda, a lot of them are of great importance to these countries. If we make progress on services in the technology and information sector, India will benefit; in the engineering sector, Egypt will benefit. The agreement arrived at on Saturday regarding access to drugs is resounding proof- it shows that we at the WTO also know how to put health before business where necessary, to fight against Aids, malaria and tuberculosis.

 

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